nwo
Soldier of Fortune
Posts: 96
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Post by nwo on Dec 20, 2008 2:13:50 GMT -5
This message is copied from another board...
What: First Annual Lord of War Festival When: 9-3-2009 through 9-7-2009 (Labor Day Weekend) Where: Location to be determined. Will be either St. Louis or Chicago.
Goal: To provide a common framework for Amtgard, Belegarth, and Dagorhir fighters to enjoy a weekend of intense fighting.
I think we (Amt/Bel/Dag) have made some really excellent steps towards cross-gaming and understanding each other over the last several years. Many of us have had an excellent opportunity to meet new people, enjoy new experiences, and be introduced to new concepts by participating in the other sports. It is, I think, the right time to start a new tradition of all the foam sports coming together to celebrate our common interests and enjoy friendly competition and camaraderie.
For this event we will be using a simplified hybrid system for combat very similar to Belegarth. Specific rules will be available as they are firmed up, but basic highlights are as follows: 1. Sufficient force will be in effect, and orientation on what that means will be run so that there is a clear understanding of what that means. 2. Weight minimums will not be in effect for equipment so that everybody may use their own gear. 3. Grappling will be allowed for gear, but not for people. 4. Bashing and kicking will be allowed. 5. All damage is created equal (no difference between stab/pierce/slash) 6. No headshots count, including projectiles
I am really looking forward to seeing a lot of you there, and am very excited about bringing a new level of communication and cross-promotion to all of our societies. Working together we can accomplish so much more than working separately.
Please feel free to post here with any questions or comments you have. More information will be made available in the following months. We should have our site selection finalized by the end of January.
If you are interested in being the contact person for organizing your group to attend, please drop me a PM. I'll be working with those parties to keep everybody up-to-date and iron out any questions or concerns that may arise.
Thanks, Brennon
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nwo
Soldier of Fortune
Posts: 96
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Post by nwo on Dec 20, 2008 2:19:57 GMT -5
Hey Guys... some of you might remember me from Rag this last year. I'm Will from Sol Invictus. After coming back from Rag, I've been playing with Arnor in St Louis pretty regular. I copied and posted the event info about Lord of War in order to let you know this is a pretty serious event. This is not a pipe dream. Brennon is one of the organizers for SKBC if you've ever heard about that event. It's the top fighting / teaching event in the country. They are inviting Dag and Bel instructors this year btw in case anyone from your realm would be interested.
As for Lord of War, the target number is likely around 500 plus at this early stage. Since it's in your back yard, I for one hope to see you guys again out in force. The basic concept of how this is going to work is pretty damn nifty but I'll leave out the details until the actual organizers post more on that so I'm not stepping on anyones toes.
As a side note... I've been talking to Arnor about getting a raid going to visit Dominion this spring. Looks like a very strong likely hood of that taking place.
Thanks guys! Will ---------------- Sol Invictus FTW!
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Post by Eldrin the Black on Dec 20, 2008 11:25:47 GMT -5
I hope to hear more about how to meld Amtgard and Dag/Bel. One thing that I noticed that happens is that the Amtgard people generally hit lighter so the Dag/Bel people don't take the hits, anger ensues. Another problem that I have seen is that the Amtgard people, emulating the Dag/Bel fighters they are around, start swinging as hard as you would in Dag/Bel. Amtgard weapons aren't padded sufficiently to do that, they hurt and sting when they hit you that hard, trust me.
People won't like that. I'm not trying to be negative, I just want soem answers to how these issues will be handled. I have seen these problems, and many more, when Amtgard and Dag/Bel try to play one "compromised" game together. It never seems to work. We definitly need some practical ansswers to cope with the diferences between Dag/Bel and Amt.
Dag and Bel usually meld perfectly well. In fact, when Ravenwood has events, I'd be wiling to comprise Dag rules to come between Dag and Bel (the compromise would only need be very small indeed) but compromising for Amtgard is a pretty big gulf.
I'm not saying anything bad about Amt now, I love Amt. I have been to SKBC and I have learned many tricks of the trade from Sword Knights and other Amtgard Elites. Heck, I've even been to Ren faires to help one of my friends promote his Amtgard Shire. But what I'm saying is that the battle culture and the practical concerns of foam stickery are sufficiently different in Dag/Bel and Amtgard to cause more problems than an optimist might be looking for. These problems could potentially ruin your event forever. On bad smear and you lose a lot of Midwest attendees henceforth.
Also, bad news, Battle of the Broken Wheel, a Dagorhir event of Ravenwood, has been planned for labor day weekend. Darn. I'd be willing to come and try your event out otherwisewwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
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Post by Eldrin the Black on Dec 20, 2008 11:26:46 GMT -5
Oh! When you are going to Raid Dominion, let us know. We might be able to get a decent sized group from down here to come too and have a big invasion.
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nwo
Soldier of Fortune
Posts: 96
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Post by nwo on Dec 20, 2008 13:09:03 GMT -5
Eldrin,
I'm not the event organizer, I'm just assisting since one of the likely sites for this event is St Louis (the other possibility is Stone House Park which is the same site as Oktoberfest. The original intended location for this event is STL due to its geographical location and proximity to all the groups involved). This is what I CAN tell you about the event to address some of your concerns:
1) Amtgard as you likely know it is not the Amtgard of the national scene. Missouri Amtgard is by and large what could be considered a little backward. The average weight of a serious Amtgard fighters sword is around 10 oz. Missouri seems to be around 7-8oz. The average shot calibration in mainstream Amtgard is comparable to Belegarth / Dagorhir. The target audience from Amtgard for this event is much much broader than simply Missouri. The projected attendance from this event is over 500. The attending Amtgard portion of that is likely around 200 plus and thats just from the Rising Winds region. Toss on all of the mass support from the rest of Amtgard itself and that number could easily double. Most of these numbers will be coming from the more mainstream regions of Amtgard which is a much more similar game. The point here is, there is very little if any difference in the intensity of fighting between Amtgard and Belegarth/Dagorhir. Unless you are pretty well traveled in Amtgard outside of Missouri, you are likely unfamiliar with the type of fighter you will encounter at this event. The remaining attendance numbers comes from the wide support this event has with Belegarth and other organizations (MAFS, Melee, and even some NERO). Dagorhir is the hardest to reach largely due to the split from 2001 between Bel and Dag. There is a lot of great support for the event from the Dagorhirrim on the individual level already and we are now actively attempting to reach a more broader Dag audience. One of the folks from Dag you might recognize is Magnus who is already a considerable cross-game fighter. If you consider the amount of Bel parks in this area where the event is being held, the support for the event from those numbers, and consider the typical size of Bel events in this same area... just the Bel attendance will at least match Amtgards and likely exceed it by some large degree.
2) The event organizers of this event are Brennon and Megiddo. Same guys who do SKBC. This event will be of a much higher production quality than what you normally see at an event. At current, there is discussion of at least three castles on site during the event. One of which is a steel frame portable that has an actual gate that is designed to literally be battered down. The last event it was used at, a fallen tree was actually used to batter the gate in while the defenders were actually braced against the gates on the other side. It will be more intense than most foam fighting type of battles, more akin to something you might find at a larger SCA war. As for the castles on site, these are all structures that already exist and are available for the event. These are not pipe dreams or "wouldn't it be cool if" kind of plans. These are already reality assets that the organizers have at their disposal. Some are from Amtgard groups, and some are from Belegarth groups. I really shouldn't be putting out there what all is being discussed since I'm not an official "organizer" of the event, but I want to paint a brief picture of some of what will be there. In short, you ain't seen nothing yet when it comes to this event.
3) Amtgard members are not the only ones producing this event. At current, besides Amtgard, many of the more notable Belegarth realms are participating namely folks from Arnor and Numenor. This is not an attempt at trying to start a true blend but rather more of putting into practice the gains made over the last three years. Amtgards more serious fighters and sword knights have been attending Belegarth and Dagorhir events in large number since 2005 with great success. We have attended Beltain, Equinox, Olympics, Ragnarok, and the wolf pack opener on multiple occasions where we have made a lot of strong ties and friendships. My own unit, Sol Invictus attended Ragnarok this past year and made a lot of new friends. I think if any of the Dominion folks remember SI, they can attest to the fact we are not pansy tap fighting players.
There is more of a stronger bond between Amtgard and Belegarth than with Dag, but thats largely due to the insular nature of how the National Message Boards are ran on the Dagorhir site and Bel is much more progressive in terms of openess to cross-gaming. This years SKBC will be featuring not only Amtgard teachers but also Belegarth and even some Dagorhirrim instructors. The event is becoming more of a true foam fighting academy with the best of the best from all three games. There is massive momentum in this movement. It's not seeking to make a unified game or organization mind you, but rather capitalizing on those things we have in common. At it's base, there is very little difference in the three. The basic combat rules are almost identical in most respects. The Lord of War event is almost Belegarth rules with no weight restrictions to allow for a broader ranger of participants. There will be a sufficient force rule in effect which is more or less the Bel/Dag standard. The Lord of War event is attempting to provide a venue for the more serious fighters from all three games to come together for a truely massive war in a true war setting instead of just big battles. If you are familiar with how the point system of Pennsic War is ran or Estrallia War, you will have a good base idea of what is being hashed out for Lord of War. I can tell you this much, it is going to be much more grounded than anything else going anywhere.
4) This event is truly a massive undertaking. As I mentioned above, it is not a pipe dream and is being spear-headed by the best of the groups already. It requires as many hands to make as light of work as possible. Considering the close proximity of the Missouri Dag groups to the event sites, we are of course naturally reaching out to your groups for not only participation but also assistance. This region is by and large Bel-centric. The current Dag support we have are located more east. If we can get some of the more local Dag fighters and oraganizers involved, it makes for that much better of an event. This isn't a "hey, come to Amtgards event", or "hey come to Belegarths event", this is a "here is a common and simple set of rules we are all familiar with event, lets get as many people on the field as possible in a war scenario that rivals the SCA's and help foam fighting in general grow and enjoy the things we have in common with each other!"
The event isn't a move towards a new game or anything like that, its simply as I stated, a hopefully once a year get together for all of us. Sort of a big ol' family reunion from our many branch tree that is foam fighting.
I'm sorry to hear your local group already has an event scheduled for that same time period, and of course understand not sacrificing your own groups plans to play in something else, but I do hope you will at least consider throwing your efforts into this mix and joining what is already a larger undertaking than what any of us who have been playing any amount of time thought possible even five years ago. Theres a lot of potential energy just crackling all around us these days. The time to break that glass ceiling and push our hobby past the smaller scale get togethers has finally arrived. Thankfully the stars are aligned for that to finally happen.
If we don't see you this year, hopefully you can make it out the following. At any rate, you can expect to see a lot more of us at the regional level in your events as the cross-gamers from the STL area at least have made it a point to come out and play Dag with you guys this upcoming year.
As for the Dominion Raid... I absolutely hope to see Ravenwood up there. We will keep you posted on those plans too.
Will ----------------- Sol Invictus FTW!
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Post by Eldrin the Black on Dec 20, 2008 15:02:31 GMT -5
Pretty good speech. Plus, I can make super light weapons to destroy my foes! (jk all my swords sit at 12 ounces) You have some pretty good words about this, well spoken. And trust me, I meant no disrespect to Amtgard, I was only asking your opinion on some problems I have seen before. Pardon my general ignorance, but I have been to SKBC, remember? Of course I would love an event like this, I'll speak with Raslin on the matter, he may see some practical ups and downs that I do not. On behalf of myself, thank you to all the men and women involved in trying to get this to work. I have thought about it for a long time and I applaud the effort. Also, I am glad that Dagorhir people have a free speech outlet via the Midwest Dagorhir Boards. No offense to the national boards, but they have their rules and we have ours. The difference is, I think, is that we won;t be diplomatic here to a**holes who wanna stir crap. You are obviously not an a-hole(but I am) *Slaps wit steel gauntlet*
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Post by solusar on Dec 20, 2008 18:31:00 GMT -5
Muck what everyone else says, I want to go.
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Squire Nox
Soldier of Fortune
Semper Aequitas
Posts: 39
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Post by Squire Nox on Dec 21, 2008 18:56:43 GMT -5
Hell yeah, I do too. Sounds like a blast! Played with some Ampt guys not too long ago at Lyonesse and they were definitely cool dudes. Looking forward to this
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nwo
Soldier of Fortune
Posts: 96
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Post by nwo on Dec 22, 2008 17:39:22 GMT -5
Here are a couple of youtube videos of the steel frame portable that has the gate that is designed to be battering rammed. Unfortunately there isn't much footage of the ramming in either of these... I'll try to get Brennon to send me some more targeted footage. Anyway... the first video is of some of the battering... hard to see, but you'll get the idea... not a very captivating piece of footage, but if you insert full on Dag contact rules, you're imagination will paint the rest of the pic. The second video was shot by a crossbowman... kind of a FPS view. You can see some bashing of the gate in the beginning of the vid, and then see people scurrying over the walls. Now... again, imagine this full contact. www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H1I2Bg0yX4&feature=relatedwww.youtube.com/watch?v=PeBu9LQm6Yw&feature=relatedHeres some footage of the Bel castle thats been offered. www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFftm0haJAA&feature=related
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Demose
Soldier of Fortune
Supreme Tyrant of the Arcani
Posts: 86
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Post by Demose on Dec 23, 2008 2:50:04 GMT -5
That crossbow-cam guy is my hero. Seen tons of his videos and he made me want a crossbow. My game design teacher was a former Ampt-er.
Looks like the Arcani have a road trip planned for Labor Day!
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Post by grumio on Dec 27, 2008 22:46:21 GMT -5
Soluzar, consider it a date, I am in!
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Lady Krystal
Calendar Techie
Maroon is FTW!
Kushiel's Chosen
Posts: 664
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Post by Lady Krystal on Jan 11, 2009 9:41:58 GMT -5
*chuckles* Ya'll want us to make our events 4 days long, yet you all yoink one of the best weekends for us to do so! Eldrin, Gump and I have intentions of attending Battle of the Broken Wheel. Keep us updated!
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Post by Eldrin the Black on Jan 11, 2009 15:26:48 GMT -5
That would be epic and I would be thoroughly honored!
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olos
Heroic Adventurer
Brother of the Black Company
Posts: 125
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Post by olos on Jan 11, 2009 19:34:28 GMT -5
If it's in saint louis, I and a few of my boys will be there, though maybe not for the whole weekend, september is bad for me, but daytripping ftw.
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nwo
Soldier of Fortune
Posts: 96
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Post by nwo on Jan 11, 2009 19:36:07 GMT -5
UPDATE: Well, on the St Louis end of things, we have narrowed our selected event site locations to two possibilities. One is the Waterloo Sportsman Club and the other being the Vanderventer Scout Camp. Both are amazing event sites and will easily host 1,000 plus in attendance. Right now, the Vanderventer site is the leading choice and is being recommended for selection by those in MO trying to ensure this event lands here. The Vanderventer site has the more attractive options going for it, being nearly perfectly designed to host a very large scale boffer fighting event. It even has a onsite castle / stockade, complete with 2nd story ramparts and a dungeon located in the main field area. There are multiple campsite areas, each with their own latrines, fresh water sources, picnic benches and fire pits. Each campsite would be perfect to host either a large unit, or realm/chapter. For those wanting to mingle with the general population or outside of their home unit or realm, the main campground area will easily contain multiple hundreds of campers. The other facilities on site are equally amazing, the dining facility has world class kitchen, fully stocked with utensils. The main lodge sits atop a river bluff overlooking a main party site complete with built up bonfire pits. For the A&S or entertainment oriented, a full stage bardic theater that seats over 100 is located just down from the main camping areas and dining hall. You can view pics of the Vanderventer site at s454.photobucket.com/albums/qq267/wisner/vanderventer%20main/ The alternate site is also located on the same photobucket site if you want to check it out. The selection of event site is still expected end of Jan. and the possible locations are still Stone House Park, near Chicago, IL and the ones the local foam groups are supporting. Both the Vanderventer and Sportsman Club sites are within 25 minutes of St Louis and not more than 45 minutes from the ST Louis Int' Airport. Thats it for the update for now! I'll post more developments as they happen. Everyone support is encouraged and appreciated. We'll see you guys at Gates of Summer! Will
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