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Post by moshkaine on Oct 24, 2009 9:21:53 GMT -5
its funny how you say that you would like to go to an event where the focus is fighting. we extended the event to 4 days to add an extra day of fighting and diddent schedule anything on friday night except a night battle, which NOBODY showed up for. alltogether we had about 16 hours of battle that weekend so if you diddent get enouf fightig mabie you aughta adjust your schedule.
if everybody feels drinking is out of hand then we need to take measures to prevent that. im going to propose that we donot have a bar at the next event and if mordor wants to throw a party then they have to card everybody at the door. this will limit access underage people have to boose. i will also bring up that there should be no drinking in the sacred grove so this area can be used for "dry" purposes. this will force people who want to drink to stay in camps away from the public so other people dont have to deal with the drunken stupidity.
another thing i am going to push for is for anyone under the age of 18 to be escorted by a PARENT. not a guardian. not someone posing as thier sister,brother or cousin whoos just going to runn off for the rest of the weekend and not take responsibility when the minor thier suposed to be watching gets shitfaced. you can come and fight but will have to get a hotel room or something.
for the people who want to have fun and not drink there are about 12 acres of woods back there. theres plenty of room for you to start a DRY party or some sort of activity to keep yourselves bussy.
we have tried to do things like this in the past but nobody showed up for them. so if you want it done do it yourself. we dont set the focus of an event on drinking, we try to balance fighting with a good party on saturday night. if you dont want to be around it then start something and invite people to it and mabie it will catch on and you can do it at every event. worked for mordor it can work for you.
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Post by Eldrin the Black on Oct 24, 2009 9:51:25 GMT -5
its funny how you say that you would like to go to an event where the focus is fighting. we extended the event to 4 days to add an extra day of fighting and diddent schedule anything on friday night except a night battle, which NOBODY showed up for. alltogether we had about 16 hours of battle that weekend so if you diddent get enouf fightig mabie you aughta adjust your schedule. if everybody feels drinking is out of hand then we need to take measures to prevent that. im going to propose that we donot have a bar at the next event and if mordor wants to throw a party then they have to card everybody at the door. this will limit access underage people have to boose. i will also bring up that there should be no drinking in the sacred grove so this area can be used for "dry" purposes. this will force people who want to drink to stay in camps away from the public so other people dont have to deal with the drunken stupidity. another thing i am going to push for is for anyone under the age of 18 to be escorted by a PARENT. not a guardian. not someone posing as thier sister,brother or cousin whoos just going to runn off for the rest of the weekend and not take responsibility when the minor thier suposed to be watching gets shitfaced. you can come and fight but will have to get a hotel room or something. for the people who want to have fun and not drink there are about 12 acres of woods back there. theres plenty of room for you to start a DRY party or some sort of activity to keep yourselves bussy. we have tried to do things like this in the past but nobody showed up for them. so if you want it done do it yourself. we dont set the focus of an event on drinking, we try to balance fighting with a good party on saturday night. if you dont want to be around it then start something and invite people to it and mabie it will catch on and you can do it at every event. worked for mordor it can work for you. Its cool, I am pretty sure these people making all the complaints are in the minority. Man, look at Rag! No one requires cards except at 2 parties and everything goes off pretty good. Some people complain, but most of us know how it really is with these things. I would say until you have a majority of people (51%) murmuring and saying things are inappropriate, I would ignore the 5% of people who will always find a problem no matter what you do, and no these aren't the same people all the time! I'm just saying a small percentage of people will HATE whatever you're doing and policy should NOT be based on the often vocal members of that small dissatisfied group. As long as THEY (minors with a parent signature) sign the waiver for the event, no guilt can fall on Dominion for anything. I'm not a bar man and if someone comes up to me and asks for a drink (its like you said) it is their parents or their responsibility to follow the law, not mine obligation to card. Now lets not get crazy and say I'm gonna go give booze to minors (cause I'm sure that 5% is just waiting to), cause I'm not gonna give booze to someone who looks ridiculously young (or anyone necessarily). What I am most trying to get across is this; if these people had such a problem, they would actually do something, but these people that usually MACHINE GUN!!!(the 5% I mentioned) usually have some other motive that is the real reason for the complaints (insecurity, self-esteem booster, esprit de corps with other whine-arses, etc.). If I had such a big problem with something myself, I would, say, get a petitioner signed about it by at least 51% of the people that went to the particular event. If they don't step up and do someting to make a difference, ignore them. People like to piss and moan, its just the way it is. You guys do a good job the way it is, if you get to tight with new regulations and rules, you're gonna lose 5-10% of the people that had no problem and likely keep the 5% that do(cause they are always there...always). That's my 2cp. |
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Khyn
Heroic Adventurer
Posts: 130
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Post by Khyn on Oct 24, 2009 9:54:12 GMT -5
That seems a bit extreme.
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Post by Eldrin the Black on Oct 24, 2009 10:08:25 GMT -5
How so? Logic with me friend.
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Post by Eldrin the Black on Oct 24, 2009 10:16:52 GMT -5
Granted, I do admit the rights of the minority must be protected, but they shouldn't run how things are governed.
(Just realized that you might have been talking about Kaine's post)
I will also fully admit, when it comes to Dagorhir event politics, I am definitely not of the Federalist persuasion. I am more middle of the road about rules and enforcement.
To me;
Too many rules and to strict enforcement=bad
Too few rules and lax enforcement-just as bad.
It is my opinion that Dominion is fairly middle of the the road when it comes to events and usually strikes a pretty decent balance.
Bang up job chaps!
Seems like current debates over drinking etc. are attempts to try and legislate morality. These people likely don't understand what a pitfall that can be *coughprohibitionetccough*
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Post by Eldrin the Black on Oct 24, 2009 10:17:24 GMT -5
Also, might I add....
Herpes
*SQUEE*
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Post by Eldrin the Black on Oct 24, 2009 10:18:18 GMT -5
Man, I double posted...shi-, wait, what am I doing now!?!?!?
*is likely doomed for his actions*
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Khyn
Heroic Adventurer
Posts: 130
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Post by Khyn on Oct 24, 2009 13:59:50 GMT -5
Yeah, I was talking about Kaine's post.
It's sad that people are being vocal about something that was the fault of one or two douche bags. I walked courtesy patrol Sat. night. I was looking for that underage drinker that was "everywhere". The party was at the Sacred Grove and Mordor. Most other drinking was limited to a few drinks the fighters had brought with them to the event.
I vote that we lock this thread, let the underage irresposiblity issue die, and look forward to more productive things. Like Shieldmeet (a dry event for those who want to gripe about it).
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Khyn
Heroic Adventurer
Posts: 130
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Post by Khyn on Oct 24, 2009 14:00:52 GMT -5
Man, I double posted...shi-, wait, what am I doing now!?!?!? *is likely doomed for his actions* 'S ok. I'll take the heat on this one. I didn't clarify. |
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Post by william on Oct 24, 2009 14:32:50 GMT -5
Personally, I did have lots of fun at War. But underage drinking is a scary thing, if one of them get hurt from it and has to go to a hospital, questions may be asked. And since Dagorhir is a fringe group, it will hurt us as a whole, not to mention the legal liabilities of the property owners. Waivers won't cover that.
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Orrin None-son
C-Box Moderator 
The Mouthy Urk
Steward of Ravenwood
Posts: 1,355
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Post by Orrin None-son on Oct 24, 2009 14:47:26 GMT -5
for the people who want to have fun and not drink there are about 12 acres of woods back there. theres plenty of room for you to start a DRY party or some sort of activity to keep yourselves bussy. we have tried to do things like this in the past but nobody showed up for them. so if you want it done do it yourself. we dont set the focus of an event on drinking, we try to balance fighting with a good party on saturday night. if you dont want to be around it then start something and invite people to it and mabie it will catch on and you can do it at every event. worked for mordor it can work for you. I have a person in Dominion Representing/assisting me. I am pushing to be aloud to set up a dry party. It sems there are more and more non-drinkers every time, this will give them somewhere else to be. It may have failed in the past do to not enough interest. I think it just may be time now. I have been trying to set it to the piint that I have voiced my opinions of what happned, then voiced my intents to prevent it again. I am not asking Dominion to change anything, just allow me the oppritunity to add to the event. I DO NOT WANT to remove the party in the Sacred grove. On the contrary, I think it is needed. From what I have seen, Mordor is the Wild roudy party, Sacred grove is the more calm social drinkers party, the only thing lacking was the dry party, partly do to not enough people interested in the past. I think having all three is a great idea. And I would love the oppritunity to run it. I only ask that I be aloud to do so with-out strings attached. By that I mean, you guys have hte final say, but that I can do what I want with it. Aslo, As stated previuosly..ALOT. I would love to run/assist with Courtesy patrols. I do it anyways, wether I vollunteer or not. I worked multiple shiofts saturday night, and then kept doing it even after passing on the tabard and radios. People know me, and seem to repsect me and my opinions, I think that helps out ALOT on something like that. just being there does some, but having people actually respect you does even more so. I know majority of the Fallen Clan helped me out with courtsey patrol at War, and would do so again given the chance. you can count on us for atleast 5 members. Aslo, one other suggestion I have is the three main party places should have radios on the same channel as CP. I can bring extra sets if need be. Then if people get out of hand, or someone needs helped back to camp, we can all be kept in check with it. |
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Orrin None-son
C-Box Moderator
The Mouthy Urk
Steward of Ravenwood
Posts: 1,355
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Post by Orrin None-son on Oct 24, 2009 14:48:44 GMT -5
Personally, I did have lots of fun at War. But underage drinking is a scary thing, if one of them get hurt from it and has to go to a hospital, questions may be asked. And since Dagorhir is a fringe group, it will hurt us as a whole, not to mention the legal liabilities of the property owners. Waivers won't cover that. Actually, the waivers would. But that is not the point. |
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Post by william on Oct 24, 2009 14:59:19 GMT -5
No document can protect someone from breaking the law. And sadly more and more states are going after land owners when underage drinking is involved.
Although it does appear that in Missouri the land owners are not liable if they take measures to prevent it from happening.
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Post by Mallos Runetotem on Oct 24, 2009 15:24:48 GMT -5
Personally, I did have lots of fun at War. But underage drinking is a scary thing, if one of them get hurt from it and has to go to a hospital, questions may be asked. And since Dagorhir is a fringe group, it will hurt us as a whole, not to mention the legal liabilities of the property owners. Waivers won't cover that. *Clears throat* Ahem...hate to butt in here, but as the Dagorhir Battle Games Waiver and Release of Liability states: "In consideration of receiving permission from DAGORHIR BATTLE GAMES ASSOCIATION INC. (Dagorhir) to participate in any Dagorhir-sponsored activity, event, tournament, contest or meeting, the undersigned assumes full responsibility for any bodily injury and/or property damage arising out of or related to my attendance and/or participation. I fully release Dagorhir, its members, participants, observers, officers, officials, owners and/or administrators of land upon which the event/activity is being held, and/or anyone administering emergency medical assistance from liability to myself, my assigns, heirs and next of kin for any injury to myself or damage to my property arising out of my attending/participating a Dagorhir event/activity. I hereby agree that if at any time I feel any Dagorhir activity/event to be unsafe or if I observe unsafe behavior on the part of other participants/observers, I will immediately notify the appropriate Dagorhir officials and/or refuse to participate in or observe any further activities/events. The undersigned is aware of the risks and hazards inherent in participating in any activity, event, tournament, contest or meeting of Dagorhir and elects voluntarily to participate, knowing that participation involves significant physical contact by others to his person and that such participation may entail a risk of injury." The key phrase there being "the undersigned assumes full responsibility for any bodily injury and/or property damage arising out of or related to my attendance and/or participation. I fully release Dagorhir, its members, participants, observers, officers, officials, owners and/or administrators of land upon which the event/activity is being held" Now to my limited legal understanding, that absolves the owners of Steward's Farm from all liability in the case of underage drinking. I also believe, unless proof of forced intention is found, that no one from Mordor can be legally prosecuted for a crime of giving a minor alcoholic drinks. I would assume from the standard legal jargon that it is the minor and the signing guardian who accepts all responsibilities for his actions. That being said, keep the drinking in Sacred Grove. Night's Watch is a dry camp and I need some place to get my drink on besides Mordor. I'm not into their... style of partying. Maybe a special dry party can be held in the barn during fair weather? Just an idea. |
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Post by Eldrin the Black on Oct 24, 2009 15:45:37 GMT -5
Agreed, Imma lock this puppy down, all has been said that can be said on either side and the middle. Good call K. Anyone starts a new thread about his same bull, I'll band you for a week, fair warning.
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