Hakan
Soldier of Fortune
Le Cla?omh Agus Le Bladhm
Posts: 27
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Post by Hakan on Feb 24, 2009 10:35:20 GMT -5
I'm only speaking from my (extensive, all be it with a different group) full contact experience. I've broken 6 kitespar swords that the owner swore up and down would not break. I told them they would, and they did. I've broken 3 kitespar sword with my shield edge by blocking very hard. 2 of those were on purpose becuase the guys told me I couldn't do it. It's a trick I can show you. I make all my reds from 1/2" solid fiberglass. I used to use round, but they flex out after about a season. I switched to 1/2" square this year and am very happy with the results. I still use 1/2" round for my blue swords. I don't want you guys to think I'm talking poopies or just being argumentative. I've never seen a kitespar sword that would last in serious fighting. At least not in the hands of some one who swings properly. I have won 4 national red tourney's. 3 in Id and 1 in Illinois. I've also broken every PVC sword I ever used. Also, I don't know how y'all do it, but for me, a hit counts if it hits with sufficient force. That means I feel it. If I do not feel it, it ain't a hit. That mean I swing hard and so should you. K I know it's rather late, but, I just wanted to agree with Kang. I've broken about 11 kitspar swords, now, and even more PVC. Lately, I've noticed, there seems to be a lot of people who don't like to take hits unless you knock the wind out of them (around here any way) or they like to "Run into" your shots and claim there's no force. Being an honour based sport it's all personal preferance as to what's "Sufficient force" and I think some people like to use that to their advantage, which brings me to: Another good idea is going by sound, I'm a big guy with thick skin and nerve damage to boot. I don't feel things a lot, that's not their fault, so I listen for a slap.
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Cyodie Centrawoven
Board Imp
Master of Catgirls
Your friend is the man who knows all about you, and still likes you
Posts: 525
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Post by Cyodie Centrawoven on Feb 25, 2009 5:03:22 GMT -5
well, i feel, that while some have problems with certien things (ex. cores and diff foams), others might have had success with the same weapon make... just my thoughts.
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Post by jackyl on Mar 16, 2009 0:59:21 GMT -5
also on that as an outside opinion on hakan's point a good hit around here makes a good audible popping sound unless its a red moving slow with alot of force {thich deems the pop sound irrelevant][i'm speaking as one with a 10 ft spear/glaive}
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Post by igitgreen on Mar 17, 2009 3:14:34 GMT -5
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Post by Sir Gheldar Blackthorn on Mar 30, 2009 14:31:57 GMT -5
Quick Edhellen history lesson for ya...
Sir Geoffrey and I came up with the flat blade design used almost universally in Dagorhir (or at least the base design) some 20 years ago... (like Rag 3-4) Many years later Geoffrey taught Kegg who began mass producing a bastardized version of this same basic sword.
He used Evalite which is a superior foam then the blue camp pads traditionally used. Problem is the EVA foam is stiffer. Not beyond safety standards... just stiffer then the norm. Which is where subjectivity comes in. ANY sword can bruise with enough force. Also keep in mind a back can get tenderized after too many back tests in a row as well.
Anyway, with his early designs and with mass production process Edhellen swords had a faulty tip in it's designe. He pre-glued the layers together before assembly. Causing the top layer to become stretched and the bottom layer to be overly compressed when wrapping over the tip. This would cause catastrophic tip failure very quickly. Which is where Edhellen got their bad wrap (as sword builders) in Dag. When the tip began to go it went fast. However, with biscuiting the tip the problem has since been solved.
I have to admit I use Edhellen weapons on a weekly sometimes bi-weekly basis. I am absolutely brutal to my weapons and have never had a problem with them or getting them passed at any Dag event. This set I use now are 3 years old. The only thing I did do is change the cover to gray so I could identify mine easier then all those others out there.
Could I make swords that are better quality? Probably, but I don't have the time to do it and I'm willing to spend a bit for the convenience. Besides the only thing I'd do different is assemble each layer individually rather then biscuiting the tip. So to me it's not a big deal...
so in conclusion... good swords, can last a long time if taken care of, little pricey but you get what you pay for...
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Post by igitgreen on Mar 30, 2009 15:09:20 GMT -5
you know thats a good point if you take care of stuff it will last but some times weps just get messed up and i like to trow my self in the middle of stuff at dag eds weps still have a bad tip manily cause of the small pice of blue foam the put on the tip of there cores with tape it breaks off and there gos you tip. not to say that they leave the point on the fiberglass in the pommles wich makes them go fast and makes them unsafe it dos not cost anymore for them to order them with out the points so i dont know why they dont as far as i can see ed bulids there stuff to break so you will buy more just like the punch tower that i bought in sep its alredy breaking anyhow if you guys have the time to make your own id say go with it if not ask someone who can most likely they will do it cheaper and better
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Post by Buddha on Mar 30, 2009 16:20:31 GMT -5
How does biscuiting the tip work? 'Cause one of my guys found some foam that is very similar to the Ed Hellen stuff and it comes in three layer sheets. Good for ease in fabrication, but not so good for the tip. I was wondering if it is possible to correct the problem of the tips when using foam layers that are already put together. Do you just give it some extra length at the top and that creates the biscuit shape?
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olos
Heroic Adventurer
Brother of the Black Company
Posts: 125
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Post by olos on Mar 30, 2009 16:34:36 GMT -5
You cut triangles out of the inner edge of the "fry" at the folding point. This causes the inner edge to effectively be shorter at that point and the outer to be longer, and makes it fit pretty easily. I generlaly do 5 triangles, with the one in the middle a bit bigger.
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nwo
Soldier of Fortune
Posts: 96
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Post by nwo on Mar 31, 2009 1:43:42 GMT -5
Good thread...
Edhellen swords are usually horribly balanced but with a little bit of modification, they are usually pretty good swords.
I have a good supply of Lexan (same stuff they make football helmets out of) for making short swords. The stuff is amazing and I promise you you CANNOT break it. I had a big supply of it at Rag last year but I don't think anyone knew what it was. We are bringing up a good armory of lexan core / MC foam to Gates. If there is any interest in it, I'll replenish my supply of lexan and bring it to a future event. I highly recommend MC foam too. Stuff is great!
Will
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olos
Heroic Adventurer
Brother of the Black Company
Posts: 125
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Post by olos on Mar 31, 2009 9:48:40 GMT -5
What's the MC foam?
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nwo
Soldier of Fortune
Posts: 96
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Post by nwo on Mar 31, 2009 13:44:10 GMT -5
Long Answer: Olos, You should be able to do a search on it on the Dag forums. I think I posted some stuff on that before I was ban hammered the first time. A google search might also turn up some good stuff. Last resort, you can search word on E-Sam for it. I know its there. Stuff is super durable, and my preferred foam. Short Answer: Olos, It's what good fighters use. Funny how you've not heard of it. Will
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olos
Heroic Adventurer
Brother of the Black Company
Posts: 125
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Post by olos on Mar 31, 2009 14:03:51 GMT -5
Maybe it's because I'd be so damn good with weapons made out of that stuff that it wouldn't even be fair. I mean, I gotta challenge myself to get better, right? Go use your crutch foam. (i'll do a search for it tonight)
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nwo
Soldier of Fortune
Posts: 96
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Post by nwo on Mar 31, 2009 18:34:18 GMT -5
I guess you COULD use MC foam on arrows. When your ready to use a sword, lemmie know. I'll hook you up.
Will
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olos
Heroic Adventurer
Brother of the Black Company
Posts: 125
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Post by olos on Mar 31, 2009 20:33:52 GMT -5
Har har. Ya gotta admit, me with a bow was pretty ridiculous.
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nwo
Soldier of Fortune
Posts: 96
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Post by nwo on Mar 31, 2009 21:10:44 GMT -5
Yep, havn't laughed that hard in ages. Totally ridiculous.
Will
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